Ep. 6: Can Fashion Be Slow and Still Succeed? With Industry Leader Hannah from Beaumont Organic

Please note this has been auto-transcribed.

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Hi, I'm Amy and this is Abi. Hi! We are serial entrepreneurs, joint co-founders, sisters and

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all, and friends. We've scaled and sold multiple businesses over the years, but we've also learned

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there's a lot more to business than profit. We've had a real awakening over the last six to 12 months

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and we're very excited to have you join us on our journey as we learn more about slow and considered

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business and how it has the power to change the world. Welcome to the Slow Circle, a podcast for

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Mindful Business Owners or want to be business owners or just conscious people who work in business

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and feel there has to be a better way. Join us while we discuss all the ways in which we can

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operate from a place of truth and integrity alongside having all the success we desire.

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This podcast is paid for by our own business, Rebrandr, a digital brand marketing and creative studio.

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Okay, so hello everybody for this episode of the Slow Circle and as you all know, Amy is off on

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maternity leave and in lieu of conversations with her, I'm doing some interviews with different

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conscious brand owners and co-founders and this week I've got Hannah here with me from Beaumont Organic

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and we're going to be talking about lots of exciting things. Do you want to give a little

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introduction to the brand? Yeah, I'd love to so hi everybody, thank you for having me.

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So little introduction to the brand, I found a boom of panic back in 2008 which feels like a million

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years ago now and also like a million years ago in the whole sustainable conscious world of living

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that we are finally embarking on and then there was really a void I would say for close made

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more consciously and I felt a bit kind of bewildered by the clover industry having done a year at

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monsoon as an assistant buyer. It felt like it was obviously very commercialised also that we

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weren't really treating the people, the farmers as we should be and how you'd expect treated

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and that led me when I was 23, so back in 2008, to looking into starting my own business that was

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doing things a little bit more correct like and they're all started from there really with

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eight organic cotton t-shirts back in 2008. That was an honest t-shirt, yes. I love t-shirts.

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What undied because I really really didn't want anything on them and that last

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a year in Japan and he was like we need black and white which are obviously your two most kind

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of toxic colours really, well over the denim but you know to get white you have to put quite a lot

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of product off and to get a true black also quite heavy on dye. But we do all that still 35 but

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yeah my vision was we wouldn't dye anything but I think echo clothing doesn't suit everyone.

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So yeah do you still do the undyte any of the undyte? A little yeah we've got we've got a small story

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in the collection we've got some felper which is like our sweatshirt fabric which is undied

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which is you know lends itself I think to undyte because you would easily buy a sweatshirt in

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the blue colour and we have a really sweet t-shirt that's in the undyte which actually has our

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slogan of slow it down on so that's kind of quite yeah but yeah it's very small because it isn't the

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easiest colour. No I mean I like it but normally the things I like are the things that no one else

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wears. Well it's funny you say that because I also love undyte and we had an undyte range at the

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simple folk and this week because obviously it's not available in the UK anymore I was looking

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to replace some of the kids like basic layers and I really want the first layer on their skin to be

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undyte and I can't find anything anywhere. Oh no thanks. Yeah it's really sad so it's interesting to

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hear you say that's where it all began and wow like 23 what efficient to have at such a young age.

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Yeah do you know I think it was just in me I think I was like in my teens I was wearing a lot of

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linen I was quite the heat in me and I was in natural fibres when my friends were wearing polyester

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I found them not very nice and it was like I already knew it was weird it was like I didn't know I

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didn't know how bad it was for you but I didn't want to it's it didn't know your head perhaps but

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clearly in your heart you knew. Yeah it's very interesting and then obviously I went to university

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when I did a gap here in Fiji which was also interesting seeing how kind of the other side of

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the world was living in a much poorer environment and disconnecting a little bit from fashion which

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was good because it really mattered what you put on people didn't necessarily match and it was all

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quite but also a lot of cotton you know I walk cotton really the year there and then back I did my

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degree at university I did tech fashion marketing learn obviously a lot about marketing and about

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kind of word of mouth communication and kind of the power of the people and and it was very like

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I heard about that when I went to work at Monsoon and then actually as the high street guy I did an

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internship at Topshop too I think Monsoon was probably one of the better ones. That's so interesting.

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Yeah I think I think we were buying things at a slightly more of a premium but it was still cheap

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and we were still marking up high and we were still putting plastic buttons on and we were

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something a lot of polyester even into network and it just didn't really sit right with me and

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and then we would barter over like 10p and it was like well why like why do we need another

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off I don't know it didn't the whole process just didn't really sit real that well and we were

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obviously living in London I'm from Manchester Manchester is a much more friendly place to live it's

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more but I know it's a bit but it has much more of a village feel to it yeah my partner and now

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husband Nelson didn't really settle in London and when he he actually got a job in Manchester

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after we've been in London by year and that was like one of the propellers because I was like I'm not

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even loving my job that much here anyway and I really think I should if I'm staying in fashion I need

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to be doing something that I believe in and and you're on it's quite a good time I know you're very

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naive and you don't even know much of 23 but you also haven't got much to lose because on a really

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low-sale yeah exactly we didn't have a house we didn't have a mortgage like there was what could what

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could we lose like if it went wrong I just stopped so you know it didn't feel like a mess it didn't feel

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that scary I knew I could always go back to get a job so yeah yeah exactly and they're really it

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felt like there was no choice in like the independence doors in the UK and I we were living in Ealing

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and there was a really beautiful store there had like Malene Birger and all the nice Danish

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brands of the time and I was like there's nothing in this whole shop that's made from organic cotton

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or that's that's very new transparent in its production and it was it just didn't feel right it's

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like I'm you're paying like £200 or something in here that you have no traceability for whatsoever

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right so like it's probably made exactly the same way as the top shop stuff being made

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yeah you know you're paying so much more for it yeah exactly so I just knew that there was a space

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somewhere for this it's taken longer in England for that space to become available in the booties I

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think we entered whatever areas of the world a lot quicker where people were so much more receptive

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and we obviously the clothes have to be feel good they have to fit well they have to be the right colour

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all these things are super important but also our values in other territories are important and I

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think it's taken longer in England for that to be important it's exciting to see it starting to

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be and to people starting to put some value on it and you know I know the other things will always come

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first but at least if it's of importance to people then it you know it's still a it's still a

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deciding factor in which brands you're going to go and look up first yeah do you know it's really

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interesting the word that jumps out at me there is you're still saying starting to and that's like

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in a way like we're celebrating that right like it is now when people's awareness and that's

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amazing and we've you know I we started the simplefoking 2018 so that's 10 years after you started

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boband organic and even then like it was so hard to get people to do things the way we wanted them done

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and yeah yeah and I have seen a huge change to now like as during that time of that getting

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easier and people being more receptive and open to it but we are still just starting like and it's

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crazy and you've been working it kind of becomes your norm and you start thinking that everybody

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thinks like this and then you yes and then you realise wow like my mom still shops the sale rail in

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marks and Spencer's and she'll buy something even if she's already got it just because it's reduced

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so much and it's like the many friends yeah like I'm preaching all the time but they're still

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shopping in Zah. I've mentioned this yeah do you remember that conversation we heard

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yeah no I mean it's I wonder where it will be in another 10 years you know it's like I really hope

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that like this it this starting to get some traction or that was inverted comments I forget

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that everybody can't see us starting to get some traction and does like in like go in an upward

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trajectory on people's awareness you know because I heard something the other day that said like

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you're you're not paying for it like when you buy something from the sale rail for a five

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of a you're saving money you're not paying that cost because you've saved in set say it was 30

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quid full price you've saved 20 but someone somewhere is paying that price that oh my god yeah

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yeah and if we could all just start thinking a bit more collectively like that I feel like we could

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have such a huge impact on people that are not being paid fairly for the artists and all skills that

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they have yeah yeah it is I don't think I think it's also happened this week with the US I think

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it's worrying that final consumer you know they are going to be protected as much as possible

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and all this is going to get squashed down to the very bottom again and that already terribly

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squashed as it is and they're already so many countries and and actually England too you know we

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also have a problem here but with people not being paid correctly for the jobs they're doing

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especially in the textile industry and it's just going to get washed back to them

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it's really worrying what's going on it with the tariffs that it's not going to close they're

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not going to suddenly go up by that percentage we know that yeah people are not going to pay the

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20% more for their clothes no it's just that it's you know maybe it in 10 years over time it will

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slowly trickle up but it will initially affect the people at the bottom sadly yeah that it's so sad

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isn't it um I mean you touched on a minute ago you mentioned transparency and I'd love to know a

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little bit more about you know what that transparency means to you in that process of from starting from

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the people making the clothes all the way through the process to which it lands with the person

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purchasing it and tells a little bit about that truly transparent supply chain that you've created

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and then maybe some tips for how other people can do the same thing yeah definitely I think if

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you're starting a business you're at such it's such an exciting time to be able to do it correctly

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I'll actually on a panel taught this week for a month as the fashion network and with some

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really big companies who are really struggling to correct the supply chain from the top down

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and it's so hard because if you've I mean excuse me I was with M Brown they've got like

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four hundred odd suppliers and and therefore the pyramid of that is massive regarding diehouses

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and all the everything else underneath it so trying to correct it is such a minefield but we always

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we started at the bottom and I think that if you if you're finding a bit founding a business now

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or you're in your very early few years you're in a person where you can do it correctly but you have

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to start at the bottom of the club it's not about finding the seamstress and being like right okay we've

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got the seamstress and let there go away and find the diehouse the the fun brings in everything else

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way sourced the cottons we've always known where they're coming from we've always been

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visited the diehouses we've gone and looked at the trim suppliers wherever they can be from how

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are they made are they made are they actually in a did in Portugal yeah because there's pet factories

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that say yeah we sourced trims and then they're bringing them in from China yeah yeah you're not

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making the trims I know you're definitely not yeah you got to go and visit them but you've got to

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start at the bottom and work your way up and then document it all and and be transparent about it

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because I think even if you don't know some of your supply chain even if you don't know some of it

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it's better to disclose what you do and don't know so you're honest with the

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because I think a customer would rather know that you've been completely transparent but then

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that keep it all preferred and I think quite a lot of companies who are probably doing things

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correctly actually yes because we see quite a lot of amazing brands that in the factories we work with

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using organic cotton got certified like you know so the supply chain will be pretty good behind it

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and then if you go no I don't disclose anything now I just think that I'm certainty you know you just

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kind of think I'll do you know but so why aren't they because why aren't they telling us yeah so

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well I think it's about knowing knowing what that supply chain is but also being very happy to disclose it

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and we you know we put even the factory names the mill name for thing I don't really care like yeah

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if people want to get that information and call them they're very welcome to you know and if that's

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all for other brands then that's all scrapes other brands are being equate to right

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I've always had that mindset like you know why would we gatekeep such information that can have

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such a wider impact like there's enough for all those to be doing it absolutely absolutely and I

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know I want to see my factories growing too and make sure that they're sustainable and sustainable means

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that they've got other brands that are also wanting to buy product that we're wanting to buy because

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that's only going to help us if that's going to mean that it's more competitive to buy the organic

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people are buying it's in a way so yeah disclosing it all and then you know and then being

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available to ask questions but if you put enough information on your website or on your

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Instagram or whatever you want that platform to be you'll find that there's a lot less questions

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because people trust you right so think is is definitely really important and it's not just a

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case of putting like your two-line as saying you know your responsibility claim that doesn't mean anything

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so you know want to see it and and I know as a customer now I want that information even if I

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don't really understand what you know the weaving factory is doing and all the blur behind it I think

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it's good that it's there and that you know people can take what they need from it yeah I think you're

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right with um um well you said a couple of things that really interesting you you said about um

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brands that are apparently doing it right using organic cotton and using got certified

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but are not talking about it and that's something that comes up for me quite a lot at the moment

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obviously as a branding agent we talk to different brands about their marketing and what they say

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and there is so much fear in some of these brands that are doing fantastic things and are accredited by

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like I don't know be caught for example like it's such a goal for some of these brands to be be caught

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certified but they have such a fear of cancel culture by saying the wrong thing on their Instagram

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or and I and that's also something that people are now having to deal with but not that it's a reason

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we should not be sharing that information but it's quite tricky to navigate that when a client has

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such an intense fear of cancel culture but yet they're doing this incredible stuff they just don't feel

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comfortable talking about it and then that's that's come up quite a lot so I think it's really refreshing

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to just hear you say no you've got to be transparent you've got to be sharing all of this information

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because we're supporting each other and creating try not only transparency but like you said

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sustainable business practices because how can these you know factory support others or support us

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if then if it's if their own business isn't sustainable exactly and I think you know we're not that far

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off you know where your upscary product passports and all the other information we're going to have

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to disclose anyway yeah so why start having it there and then you just you just going to be

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ahead when that comes in in England and for you know many brands selling or any in Europe they all

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have already helped to do all this stuff anyway yeah so you know they are it is kind of going the way

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yeah in respect yeah which is exciting and it was always going to have to be government down like

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you know could the consumer was never going to start thinking I'd like to stop back

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buying stuff in Primal Die Hard you know always have come from the government down I think it was

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and you know in England is behind in that yeah this didn't they for the years we have been we've been

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behind and not just in fashion but you know I do think fashion were particularly behind but I think in

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all of all of the kind of and Congress organic wellness all of these things you know they have a

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paid everything I think we're just the hedge the rest is a little bit no I think I agree and you know

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particularly when you're someone who's interested in emerging information and wellness and different

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ways of doing things you look to you know what's available in Australia and it's like wow you know

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we feel so far away from that yeah I mean 2015 we went to one of Nelson's best fans weddings in

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Australia and in Bondi which I know it's quite cool and it's you know it's a nice place there was

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several not just one several boutiques on the high street only selling organic clothes yeah and I wish

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this is miles in front of where we are in the UK we hardly even have any brums that were

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poorly organic that yeah never mind shots actual shots where you go in and trust everything that you're

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buying and and you know and no America has you know positive and negative press regarding their

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action industry but they do have quite a few brands too yeah big brands that are not really

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doing it and we just don't you know Germany have got jules obviously they've got Evelyn they've

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got um um um all that they've got Eileen Fisher there's some big brands that if you go down a

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commercial high street you can find yeah you know you can go in and you can see like cards about where

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those clothes will be made by the Evelyn do a good job that to be fair they do they do yeah they do

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a fantastic job I remember looking into it because we wanted to implement something similar um and it's

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it's really great the way that they do it and it's it's it's such a shame like in the UK it feels like

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if you want to do it differently you have to step outside of the system and it's that lack of

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integration that I think makes things feel difficult in terms of accessibility and transparency um but

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what do you think has been the most challenging part of staying truly transparent as you've grown in

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particular um well definitely definitely keeping true to our two core routes which is the fabric

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and the people and education every soul and the staff who has arrived that this is the most

00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:02,960
important part of the sourcing process yeah I think that everyone needs to believe in the vision

00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:08,160
they need to be on board with you because if you've got a couple of people within the team who

00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,520
will I actually we could just get this for Chief would make a better margin on this or do this

00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:17,280
yeah it's a slippery because you we could absolutely make a better margin byings you know

00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:22,960
normal cotton in India and making it out there but that's not what we're about yeah about far

00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:28,960
is about supporting people who have worked with the years making sure that the you know the farmers

00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:34,480
are treated correctly the fabric like so it's the whole it's the whole package which you know we go

00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:40,000
through as I'm sure you used to when you were running simple foe you know I'll kind of pdf

00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:44,720
as people enter and I sit down with them and I go through vision and you know I we immerse them in

00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:51,360
it and then you know I also practice it and and once you've once staff have been with us for a while

00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:56,720
you find they're starting to too you know they don't want them shopping in Zaram and on the high

00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:01,840
street like they used to and everyone starts to adopt it which is why you then think oh everyone's

00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:07,840
like this and then you go and you bubble you like oh no let's go back in the bubble it's really nice

00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:16,880
enough yeah yeah you've got to educate yourself and you've got to make sure when you're employing people

00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:23,440
that they do believe because I do think that not everyone everyone does so they're not the right people

00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:28,880
to employ you know you've got to have people who they might not know it all but if as long as they

00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:34,400
believe in the vision then they'll be happy to learn yeah yeah that's such a good way of putting it

00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:42,480
I remember talking to a girl it was like during covid and we were looking to hire and she was like

00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:48,080
yeah but you need to have like a backup option right because during covid people are not going to

00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:55,520
be buying such luxury pieces and I was like thinking how do I start here like they're like they're

00:22:55,520 --> 00:23:01,680
luxury pieces they're they're they're organic like you know it's like a completely different mindset

00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:08,800
but you're so you're so right like if it's a ripple effect isn't it because then if your team

00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:15,120
are invested in your values they're going to be passing that on to other team members or

00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:21,680
partnerships or customers eventually and it will ripple through and the customer then sees your

00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:27,440
values and understands your ethics have you seen a big shift we touched on it at the beginning but

00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:35,120
have you seen a big shift since you started in customers awareness or values over the year like as

00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:41,760
it been like gradually increasing through that time or have there been moments where you suddenly

00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:49,920
thought oh there's been like a surge something big has moved here I think it's all been very gradual

00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:54,320
so much so that sometimes I don't even notice it but even with the staff that I've employed

00:23:54,320 --> 00:24:00,800
at the beginning there was there wasn't as many people who did believe as much so it felt like

00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:06,080
I was employing really good staff but maybe it wasn't that's a lot of their values and as the business

00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:10,720
is grown I've more people have come from big corporate companies and they want they believe in a slower

00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:15,440
pace of life they believe in they believe in the countryside and barefoot and all the things that

00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:21,520
we talk about all the time yeah and I think that that slow trickle is also come through our final

00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:28,800
consumer too and it was it's been a lot quicker a Switzerland is one of the markets that we sell quite a

00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:37,280
bit in and they are much more contrast merely I mean they just seem to be a lot more in touch with

00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:44,960
wanting to know where the closer made and asking those questions so I think when when you start

00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,720
in different territories it feels like there's a massive jump because like oh my god everyone gets

00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:54,320
it now and then you come back to your home territory and realise that the pool is a little bit smaller

00:24:54,320 --> 00:25:03,280
here yeah makes sense it is trickle through in all aspects of of life I do think that it isn't

00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:11,120
it isn't just because I've got more friends that are aligned I do think that it is starting to become

00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:16,480
I think we've got to the point where everyone got so it was so intense everyone was so busy it

00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:21,440
was all like so much and I do think things are starting to shift in England yeah and

00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:29,280
mindsets changing and with that you know consumerism mindset is changing too yeah but you

00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:36,000
we live in a city that's got a lot of fast fashion you know it will in a couple just the particular yeah

00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:43,680
and more more so I think then other of our European competitors like I just have an abundance of

00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:49,600
heavy tea clothes in England yeah there's always there's a lot of choice for the consumer there is

00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:58,480
there really is and like as you've grown how have you have you like experience conflict between I mean

00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:05,360
we were talking about this just before we came into the recording but have you felt a conflict between

00:26:05,360 --> 00:26:14,480
your own growth and your integrity it's a really interesting one because I think that if I had at some

00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:20,480
points in the business we had looked at external investment and that we had also looked at our

00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:26,480
Japanese partner wanted to get quite involved and that said to you it was all a crew at the very

00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:31,920
beginning and straight to age palm on black so and I think because they were placing such big orders I

00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:38,480
couldn't not make black and I think it's when we've had these layers of external partners coming in

00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:48,240
that you really have to realign with what the business is all about is it's so easy to just get

00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:53,680
kind of flashy light or whatever you want to call it shiny objects in the room yeah

00:26:55,040 --> 00:27:01,200
why that so but I actually had some notes from our very old accountant that I was going through

00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:08,000
last week or the week before with my with my kind of mission statement on and that's a clear

00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:14,800
the same and I just think I've because because from the beginning it was it wasn't overly

00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,800
complicated and it's quite a simple it was quite a simple business model regarding

00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:24,000
what was important within the business like you know we never will own addresses or you know

00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:29,840
it was never that specific it was always quite broad at the bottom I think it hasn't and then we've

00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:36,560
never taken on any external funding for that helps yes I do think that that can be such a positive

00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:42,720
thing for businesses but I also think and I've seen in some of my friends companies it takes you

00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:50,880
on another path yeah to the house you know margins and you know turnover but mainly profit is so important

00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:57,680
and you have to go to where that's coming from so I think it's quite fortunate in the way that we

00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:03,200
haven't done that it's a lot harder to say very true to our integrity because I've been steering

00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:09,840
it the whole way yeah yeah that makes a lot of sense and really resonates with me in my experiences too

00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:14,880
and I think you're right when you're not answerable to someone else you know that you need to

00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:22,240
prioritize profit because you know there was loads of conversation recently with Nikki Reeds

00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:28,720
husband in the US and they were talking about like the non-profit model doesn't really work if you

00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:34,160
want to give back to communities the best thing to do is create a business grow the profit and

00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:41,440
distribute that profit in like by paying people fairly by making charitable donations by whatever

00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:49,520
that looks like and when you are the person who makes the decisions and can hold true to that integrity

00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:54,800
you know where the hard lines are where you're not willing to jeopardise the branding and what

00:28:54,800 --> 00:29:00,960
that mission was in the first place but when other people come in you you can't do that that you are

00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:09,520
answerable to somebody else um yeah I think it's actually the value you're brand too I wait I wait

00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:14,560
just to know for the prior who in Portugal last time we were speaking to the factory manager he

00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:19,440
worked with a very big brand and they've decided to outsource quite a lot of its Bangladesh so you

00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:24,880
know Portugal's Bangladesh so your quality is going down yeah the price stayed the same because

00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:30,320
it's all about margin because they've sold such a big chunk of the business they were about premium

00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:34,960
they were about they were about quality and yeah and before you your customers going to notice that

00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:41,200
yeah absolutely gonna see that the t-shirts not as well made and the quality not good it's not washing

00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:47,040
as well and all these things and you are ultimately you might be getting a better the part for a few

00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:53,760
years but you'll do valuing your branding the long term so I think it's a very silly slope and that's

00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:58,560
all about partners whether it's the person you call or whether it's the person you have as a business

00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:06,160
investor you have to believe in what your business is about because otherwise just you can't control

00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:11,360
it or because you're just one person so you have to have great people up to you who are on board

00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:17,120
with the god I couldn't agree with that more and like you said the if those people don't align

00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:21,360
that message that branding is going to get diluted the more people it moves through

00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:27,520
and then ultimately yeah that's detrimental to the well-being of the brand isn't it

00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:33,280
of course of course I mean I actually did my dissertation at the time itself on word of

00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:39,360
mouth communication and it's the same it's the same whispers and if you're if it's good whispers and if

00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:46,960
it's positive it's powerful but if it's not it's really really damaging absolutely yeah I mean

00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:52,000
there's a powerful lesson there in in branding isn't there but also to bring it back to being a

00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:58,960
conscious business and wanting to have I mean most conscious business creators start because they

00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:03,760
want to leave the planet in a better place than how they found it and you have this mission that

00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:12,080
needs to come through you to have an impact and yeah like of course you need to make a profit in

00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:17,360
order to continue to have that impact otherwise if all the small businesses didn't prioritize

00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:24,240
profit in any shape or form you wouldn't be able to continue I mean there would we would everybody

00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:30,400
would close and there would be only high street stores that don't care about anybody and yeah so

00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:36,560
it's balancing that need to be profitable and to have an impact and pay people fairly versus like

00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:44,720
where does that hard line end like at what what's the fine line between doing good and doing damage you

00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:53,280
know I think it's a key that thing yeah it definitely is and but yeah I think the key is profit I think

00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:59,280
you take on external investors quite often it's about growth and profits it's about

00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:06,880
doing over and more volume and profit so and is that all that sustainable like if you're making a

00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:11,920
really healthy profit turning over a million then it doesn't necessarily mean to say you're

00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:18,880
going to turn over 5 million and make five times you might not so it's assessing that and it's

00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:24,320
working out you know obviously what kind of business you also want to have but profit and cash

00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:31,360
flow are king that's what's going business going turn over is just a bit of a kind of vanity thing

00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:36,000
it's not true it's like having loads of followers on Instagram but no one talks to you

00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:43,440
yeah exactly exactly that it's exactly that and I think I think we often chase turn over because

00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:48,160
we just think growth we need to grow but actually surely growth is having a better profit I mean

00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:52,880
better margins a your stuff better so everyone's happier so that people can leave on

00:32:52,880 --> 00:33:00,240
remembering the team so yeah so good so good and I think um

00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:07,360
like the other thing that comes into that is and I was talking to my husband about this yesterday

00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:19,040
that um pull to create newness as a yeah asher brand versus like do you like where's the line

00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:26,960
there between creating newness and creating you know what needs to be expressed through us

00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:32,400
and to continue to have a positive impact versus creating for the sake of creation and

00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:41,360
and losing that slow fashion ethos along the way yeah I mean it's it's been a

00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:46,400
interesting balance person the last year yeah we've been trying to get a collection smaller as you know

00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:50,800
because we've been working alongside each other for the last year as well so it's been like

00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:58,400
super important part of the business model yeah but also you know the newness is the candy on the

00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:03,760
rail and that's what what everyone comes to to look at but it's not necessarily what everyone buys

00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:10,640
right and I think it's it's very interesting that we spend all this time thinking about the newness

00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:14,320
because we need it because it's exciting and it's the campaign front cover and it's all that side of

00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:19,920
things but we've been spending also a lot I'm doing an analys analysing all our data and actually

00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:24,720
when we put the newness in and then you're in your top 20 you've probably only got two or three

00:34:24,720 --> 00:34:29,920
styles that people have bought that in you because they've come it's drawn them to the nail it's drawn

00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:35,120
into the collection but then they've bought the you know the same trouser in a new colour or you know

00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:41,440
the same shape with a different colour on it or so I think it's about it's what obviously once you've

00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:46,480
been going a few years you can have the beauty of some stuff but you know it's fashion and we're

00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:51,760
creative we don't want to just look at spreadsheets yeah so we don't want to be just data driven but I

00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:57,200
think it's about a balance of advantages and unars and then and then trying to when you're developing

00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:01,280
a new style obviously that's going to be a bit costly and you're going to have to sample so

00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:05,600
enter a line on blocks that you've had in the past so that when that sample comes out which

00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:13,120
actually fits in. Rather than or you know basically always looking back on step parts looking at which

00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:18,880
blocks fit well adapting them to the new styles so that it does less waste because I mean the sampling

00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:25,840
in on a year's wild and I know there's so many in it's the ways of doing that online but people

00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:31,840
still want to try on a garment before you get it yeah so still going to always be that element

00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:36,800
of sampling and but yeah I think it's very interesting with the newness and we're still we're still

00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:41,360
you know having quite a high percentage of it in the collection I mean it's less than half obviously

00:35:42,720 --> 00:35:50,640
but it does need to be there but I think it's what we consider you right and how many pieces do you

00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:59,760
like what's that sweet spot of does 20% newness with an 80% core collection still bring enough people

00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:07,600
in for then to buy the things that you know sell well you know yeah I mean true newness as in a

00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:16,480
completely new style I mean I don't more than 20% we we're working to about 40% you I mean inverted

00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:24,320
comments here with my fingers but I say new I mean it's still the same blocks right yeah you're doing

00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:30,960
that though like really good at reinventing something enough for it to feel new exactly but so it's

00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:37,120
kind of like a safe new style so it's a new style but we know I really like it I think the real wild

00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:41,600
cards you've got to keep quite tight because some of them are going to be absolutely winners but some

00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:47,600
probably not going to sell anything yeah so it's it's quite a risk and then you know we sell quite a

00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:53,840
lot wholesale they like to buy quite safely but our online customer likes to buy the more unusual stuff

00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:59,920
so it's we have to have a bit of a balance there too and we don't want to like jeopardize online

00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:06,400
customer by having nothing really out there no it's between it all isn't it I was talking to another

00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:15,840
fashion brand about this the other day and she was saying oh I sometimes I bow to the pressure of what

00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:20,880
people are requesting like people customers messaging saying I'd love this in a brighter colour

00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:29,680
or you know and then the few times that she has listened and done it she's stuck with the stock

00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:37,280
it doesn't sell and I was like you know it coming back to that as conscious creators this is bigger

00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:41,920
than us right we're just the vessel through which this is being expressed but we're trying to

00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:49,840
have a bigger impact than just our own creation and when you listen to that and you create from that

00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:56,960
place rather than the spreadsheets and the data which is useful of course but when you allow

00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:02,960
that creation to come through I feel like you know what people are going to buy and you know

00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:10,160
what to create that's going to sell but when you start forgetting about that and listening

00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:17,200
to the noise around you that's when it can also get really tricky oh my god yeah I mean I think

00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:21,600
customers are amazing and if you can do like groups with them or if you can be questionnaires that's

00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:27,280
all so so valuable and your agents like we've got quite a few agents there great they have so much

00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:32,320
contact with our customers if you get feedback then that's great but all of this is just feedback all

00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:38,240
of this is just top of the funnel yeah and then you need to narrow it all down because if you take

00:38:38,240 --> 00:38:42,000
the all on your collection will be huge for a start with a whole load of colours that you've

00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:46,720
probably wanted in it and it's shapes that maybe aren't very you you know we often get asked for

00:38:46,720 --> 00:38:52,000
things that are more structured and like that's just not really us that's not what we're about like

00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:57,040
you like things that you can breathe in that are easy that are fluid and and it's it's like you

00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:02,480
need to go to another brand to buy that like because other brands that can offer that that's not what

00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:09,680
what we do so I think it's you have that's again just staying true to your integrity and what you are

00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:16,880
about because you know when we're not about putting like you know those dark and fitted details in

00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:22,480
the zips and all these kind of things that make ever think both structured yeah yeah no I

00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:29,520
it's interesting isn't it went you're right like that we have to listen of course and sometimes

00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:34,880
there's really incredible like feedback that you're like yes oh my goodness thanks so much

00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:40,080
for telling us that and then but you do you have to filter it like you can't listen to everybody

00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:46,880
as much as you want to be a community brand where everybody has a voice and you you know feels heard

00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:55,200
that you like you said you just can't implement all of that and what what I'd love to know from you is

00:39:55,200 --> 00:40:00,880
what do you hope to see in the future fashion we've talked a lot about where we're at currently

00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:06,160
and where we've been and but what would a truly conscious industry look like to you

00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:12,960
well we've got to make less I mean that's the very very bottom line of the fashion industry

00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:21,120
so it would start with that whether that comes from the government down or how that comes in I mean

00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:26,560
the the core of it is we have to make less we have to pay the workers more and therefore we have to

00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:33,840
care a bit for clothes and so we will buy because we're going to pay more but that's that's the loop

00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:37,840
that has got to start happening on every level so I'm not just saying everyone needs to buy

00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:42,880
mid market clothing if you are still shopping at the high street the high street should be producing

00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:48,640
less they may make so much you need to put half of it in the sale why not just make half of that and

00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:54,400
sell it for like two pounds more and then you wouldn't need to do it like does it it doesn't

00:40:54,400 --> 00:41:02,240
the business the business model is completely ruined by sale culture yeah so and if there wasn't

00:41:02,240 --> 00:41:07,520
so many people would just buy it full price because they know there wouldn't be a week or in a week

00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:13,040
so then they just would buy what the piece they truly love rather than buying ten things in the sale

00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:20,480
that would reduce price yeah and one piece I mean our shop is a stone's vote from primar,

00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:27,440
picking em or all the good guys in the city centre and you see people coming out of primar and you

00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:32,880
don't see people with one bag they have like three huge bags and it's just like what the hell are they

00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:40,560
buying you know why do they need so much stuff and it's just driven by the fact too cheap because

00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:46,240
so they're going with 50 quid and they can buy three bags worth yeah so but so yeah I think it

00:41:46,240 --> 00:41:52,320
starts with making less we're also we're also very focused on that too not that we over make in any way

00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:57,520
but being more strict on how many styles of in the collection because then you can make less yeah

00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,880
obviously if you're collecting more inevitably going to be making more because you're always going

00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:07,840
to make a few extra of each style yeah um so you know going back to just having a more focused

00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:14,000
business plan and a h&m and Zara and all these guys they will also have loads of loss leaders in

00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:18,800
their shops and they could also streets but they don't want to because they're they're making so much

00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:23,680
money for them so it's a bit of a have to come from the top down England will eventually start

00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:29,840
adopting some of the things that other countries are adopting too and and an industry where people

00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:34,000
have been paid correctly you know in India and Bangladesh in all these countries that where the

00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:41,120
ladies and men you know are making clothes for peanuts if they're lucky and you know if they would

00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:47,600
if they were and paid correctly the whole thing would just flush out yeah because would buy less

00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:52,880
because we wouldn't have them anything more so and obviously by and better quality goes without saying

00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:57,680
but I know everyone's got different budgets and I know everyone's at a different stage of life um but

00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:04,720
the quality clothes you can also buy second hand yes so good yeah there's so much on vintage now

00:43:04,720 --> 00:43:11,680
like it's like crazy isn't it it's easy to do that option and the other thing I always think about

00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:18,640
is I think it's a mindset shift too like we're all okay with the idea of donating money to charity

00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:26,960
like we we know that as good citizens if we have some spare money we should donate money to charity

00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:33,680
and we don't expect anything back from that that money's gone like to a good cause but yet we have

00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:39,840
such a hang up with giving that same amount of money to a conscious business that's trying to pay

00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:47,120
people fairly in exchange for a product you've purchased whereas if we can just shift that mindset

00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:53,440
to apply to supporting small independent conscious businesses who are truly trying to have an impact

00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:59,680
and actually are having an impact like let's forget the trying no matter how big or small we

00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:05,760
everyone is having an impact but if we could shift and say okay what half that money goes to charity

00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:10,640
and half that money goes to support conscious business and the people that that supports along the

00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:18,960
way then it you actually get something back for that too you know it's it's like I wish that I could

00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:26,560
tell that to more people because I feel like when you can have that mindset shift you suddenly don't

00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:31,680
think oh well I don't want to pay a lot for that because because actually you then think well look

00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:37,840
at the impact I'm having with that money and how great I get a sweater for it yeah yeah we have it

00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,840
and there's I mean it's interesting there's a lot of choice on the high street but there isn't maybe

00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:51,280
enough choice in the other areas yeah but I think it's interesting what's happened in the food

00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:56,080
and beverage industry and eventually hopefully that will happen in fashion in some much as you know

00:44:56,080 --> 00:45:01,120
post-Brexit everything has become more expensive yeah but we're not not going out for dinner we're not

00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:06,400
not buying that glass of wine are we we're still buying it for probably at £10 and we we're quite a

00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:10,960
lot of bars where I should always as well and people have just been in you know the bars nearby

00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:16,560
probably bought a bottle of wine a bottle of champagne 50 quid 60 quid and more and they've just

00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:21,520
drank that and then they'll come in our shop like all that's expensive 50 pounds for that t-shirt

00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:26,640
and you're like well you just drank that in the body and you're going to eliminate it from your

00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:36,160
body it's not like you keep it's like we're happy to spend that because you know I'm on food and

00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:40,880
beverage interestingly but it seems that I think it is because there's so much choice of cheaper

00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:47,520
options in the clothing industry and sadly because we've got so cheap people think that's what it's worth

00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:53,840
that's the problem yeah they don't really all the work that's gone into making that t-shirt at 50 pounds

00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:57,680
that's actually the correct price for that top because of all the work that's gone into it.

00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:06,560
You've just seen a t-shirt in H&M for £5 you're like yeah that's not correct right those are the people

00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:12,080
that need your charitable donation because that's you know completely taking advantage of

00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:18,560
of the people making the clothes yeah it's it does need to be a big mindset shift and I get that

00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:29,600
like culturally um we have a lot to work through in terms of like accepting that um but I you know

00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:35,840
we just have to hope in the future where we start taking the lead from other countries and other

00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:41,600
cultures around the world who are um thinking about things differently and being more conscious in

00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:46,880
their consumers and because the reality is we are always going to consume but we can do it.

00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:54,240
Of course. Yeah that feels more conscious. I would hope that the government let's say

00:46:54,240 --> 00:46:58,080
like you know you get off the airport in Manchester first thing you see is a boo-hoo billboard

00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:04,240
yeah it's embarrassing yeah so think that's uh the government are all around that at the airport

00:47:04,240 --> 00:47:10,560
you know things we know they're doing things wrong yeah so you know who I do think that as those

00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:15,520
things start changing um which you know the problem is the government's making loads of money

00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:20,640
probably off their tax but they don't want it to change yes it's it's tricky isn't it does

00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:24,160
I mean that's a whole other conversation isn't it?

00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:30,640
very frustrating situation living in Manchester but then I saw it all over the trains in

00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:36,720
transit in London too yeah I think it's everywhere and I think you're right like it's part of a bigger

00:47:36,720 --> 00:47:43,600
problem whereby people are being kept in their segments and the people at the top are profiting

00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:51,120
off like you say the tax fought from those big brands so of course they're not that yeah yeah

00:47:54,720 --> 00:48:01,120
no exactly okay so final question and we answered question to all of our guests

00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:07,920
what is the one piece of advice you would give to slow business owners or someone that's

00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:15,920
considering becoming a conscious entrepreneur yes I think I probably kind of touched on this

00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:21,600
join the talk but it's definitely clear on your vision and your values from the beginning

00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:29,040
and um from day one they true to them ensure your team are understanding them as you grow

00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:34,640
so important and keep coming back to them like keep refreshing them when you do your team meetings

00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:38,560
when you do quarter lives or you have six months or whatever you do with your team like

00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:44,560
it really important yeah because you know not that people are going to forget but it's just so

00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:51,920
important and and and then surround yourself with an opportunity especially if you don't have

00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:56,080
a partner within the business you know with support with that kind of people because

00:48:56,080 --> 00:49:03,040
so it can be quite important yeah if you're there one you've just got to and I didn't do that

00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:07,040
I didn't do that enough from a young age and the last a few years since I've been doing it more I

00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:12,640
just feel so much more empowered and stronger and you know I just think that's really really important

00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:16,320
I think people think they have a lot time for it or they haven't got the money to do it or whatever

00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:21,760
it might be but it's a really good investment to be my thing so no I could not agree with that

00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:30,240
more and you know there's so much out there now communities we run a women in business circle

00:49:30,240 --> 00:49:37,200
there are others there were loads there's retreat days there's mentors like oh it's so many

00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:42,960
different what there's something for everyone and whatever support looks like for you it's out there

00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:50,000
and you're right like when you feel it normalises what you're doing and how and the struggles that

00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:54,320
you can have from being a conscious entrepreneur but it's also incredible to have someone to

00:49:54,320 --> 00:50:02,000
celebrate your wins with you know yeah and I think we have we kind of hiding behind a very

00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:07,040
since the next just about had Facebook when I started the business and now you know with all the

00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:11,840
social platforms and obviously everyone's lovely glossy websites and it's very easy to look at

00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:15,520
other businesses like oh my god they're doing amazingly it's all shiny and it's all fabulous in it

00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:20,720
and it's so if you've got that real person to person communication behind it yeah you can

00:50:20,720 --> 00:50:25,120
and they're going through very similar things to you actually even on a bigger scale or a smaller scale

00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:29,840
or that this you know seems slightly different but it's it's all the same when a business really

00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:36,560
everyone's got up sounds it's never just up it just doesn't work like that yeah so yeah I just

00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:42,400
think that's really really important at whatever level of business I think that if someone asked me

00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:47,040
that question I probably would answer the same thing I think that's a really good answer and

00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:54,480
you've also seen it right like you've seen those people that deviated from their core values

00:50:54,480 --> 00:51:01,840
and their essential truth and you see that that doesn't bode well for people whereas the people that

00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:08,800
stand true in their integrity like two-footed like you know in things you've got through hard times

00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:14,480
of course you're always going to but things pan out yeah yeah yeah the brands that we kind of really

00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:20,880
look up to the kind of a pategoneers the real-like shakers up there they have been as true to their visions

00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:26,640
in the beginning as they are probably even more true now they're so like rigid and that's what's

00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:33,440
inspiring yeah it's amazing and I think that you know that that's a pillar then in the community that

00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:38,240
people like it just gets bigger when people trust it more and yeah I think it's really really

00:51:38,240 --> 00:51:47,440
important yeah thank you so much what a great chat and it's been really nice to talk about the industry

00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:54,400
that I actually dip in and out of now that I used to be like a full part of so thank you for that too

00:51:54,400 --> 00:52:02,800
thank you for your listening yes thank you bye this podcast is paid for by our own business

00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:09,280
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00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:15,200
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