Ep. 4 pt 2: Does Perfectionism Kill Inspiration?

Please note this has been auto-transcribed.

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Hi, I'm Amy and this is Abi. Hi! We are serial entrepreneurs, joint co-founders, sisters and

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all, and friends. We've scaled and sold multiple businesses over the years, but we've also learned

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there's a lot more to business and profit. We've had a real awakening over the last six to 12 months

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and we're very excited to have you join us on our journey as we learn more about slow and

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Rebrandr, a digital brand marketing and creative studio.

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Part one we were talking all about finding passionate work or within your business.

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Yeah. And then the second part was to be talking about perfectionism and does it kill inspiration

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and suppose that passion, which we just didn't have time to get on to, so that's what we're going

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to talk about in this episode. Yeah. Which yeah, I think it does lead on really nicely actually,

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or we've just been talking about finding that passion. So now it's more about trying to keep

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that passion, I suppose. Yeah. Not looping.

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So the first kind of question within that is what's the difference between striving for excellence

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and being obsessed with perfection? Yeah. I think that, yeah, I think sometimes people do misunderstand

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that kind of concept around perfection, like I think you should, it's not to say that you shouldn't

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have a good working standard. Yeah. You know, like you can still have, I mean, we would say like,

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it's still important to stick to your branding or your brand guidelines and all of those things.

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Like it's not saying throw all of that out the window. Actually, those things not meant to be there

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to restrict you. They meant to be there to just like kind of provide, I guess, parameters for you

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then to feel free to to create and do within within that kind of structure. Yeah. So I think,

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yeah, just to start like, I just wanted to say if we're like, oh, don't get caught up on perfectionism,

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that doesn't mean that you shouldn't check your email campaign that you're about to send out

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and make sure there's no spelling, spelling mistakes before you send it because like, I think that's just

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your, I mean, everyone has different levels, but like that should be your own level of like

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where your standards are, right? Yeah. I think it's one of those things that's really hard for business owners

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and who are the gatekeepers of the band as well. That's the added pressure, right? Is that everything

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that goes out, that you are approving has to, whether it's you doing it on your own, that's one thing,

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you can hold yourself to whatever standards you want, right? But you might be exhausted by the end of it,

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but then holding other people to those same standards is really tricky because what I have learned

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and I really mean I learned it like as, as we went through, was that, I mean, yeah, maybe someone would

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submit some copy for review and I could tweak it and change it and I wouldn't have said it that way,

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but that doesn't mean they did it wrong and I did it right. That's like, and just because I think a

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particular word might be better in that place doesn't mean it actually is, you know, the vast majority

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of people might align better with a different word and, yeah. And actually who then,

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who am I then holding to those standards and who am I to hold anyone to any standards?

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Like it's quite like an interesting exploration, I guess, that I've been on and

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now we're lucky enough to be able to be on the other side of that where we're submitting work

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two brands for approval and when it's slight tweaks made or changes made or suggestions,

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like I actually really enjoy that level of collaborative working and it's not about like right or wrong

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or, you know, but I do think that as a brand owner, there is a place in yourself to which you need

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to come to, to not have it be part of the reason you're burning out, which is that, you know, you don't

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have to have everything exactly the way you would have done it as long as it's good. It doesn't have to

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be. I mean, I always think of to do's, tasks, things that need doing however you want to think of it

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in three, in like that they fit into three categories. The first one is things that only you can do

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because you're the co-founder, it's your voice, you know the brand inside out, it came from inside

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your head right and there are things that can only be you but then there is another layer of things which

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you might be able to do quicker or better or in a more considered way but somebody else could do it

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and then there's a final layer of things that do not need to be you at all and I think that's a

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really good way to think about things because you can strive for excellence but you can also recognise

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that excellent is an overall outcome. Each individual task doesn't necessarily need to be analysed to

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the same degree as the overall outcome. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does and I think

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I'm like kind of applying it back to what we were talking about earlier in the first part which

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was about passion and it's interesting isn't it because well two things came up earlier we were like,

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you know, states be authentic and I think that's where it becomes hard if someone is

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say submitting work to you and it doesn't feel authentic to you in your brand. Yeah, so then you

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feel like I need to change it or it needs to further edits because it needs to feel authentic.

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Yes, because it's getting that balance right but then at the same time like at what cost do you

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go to for that because if it's a part of the business that's draining you and that's why you've

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given it away to somebody else because that you've just said it's not the one that you have to do

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but maybe you could do it better. Yeah. If it is draining you then maybe you have to go it's not

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quite right, but it'll better than me being drained by having to still do this type of work that

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doesn't excite me and inspire me and I'm feel really passionate about. Yeah, it's really challenging

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I think because I think so. As business owners you want things to be perfect. Yeah, yeah totally I

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think there's actually something I really don't enjoy about being a perfectionist and

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it feels like oh I can't I ever just be happy with the way that's that is well that's been done or

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like you know and it's one thing to hold yourself to those standards but it's another thing

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to hold other people to those standards because I also absolutely love leading a team of people

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and I would never ever want them to feel that I didn't think what they were doing was good enough.

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It's like as a parent you know like Seth yeah may not unload the dishwasher the way I wanted it

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to be unloaded and have all the things where they go or whatever but I'm so appreciative of him helping

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and doing that and putting that effort in that I'm not going to pick it apart you know there's

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like it's a really there's like a dark shadowy edge to being a perfectionist and so many people

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think of it as a wonderful thing right like having this capability to strive for perfection

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but actually I feel like it's a double-edged sword and you can build a prison for yourself.

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Yeah absolutely but it's it's so interesting actually thinking about working with other brands because

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you're almost I don't know it's just interesting like would you take it would you have taken it further

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if it was your own brand and not been put you know what I mean like would we be like oh it's not quite

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perfect and you that is your own standard isn't it but obviously we do it to a really good standard

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when we're doing it for other brands but I don't know that there's still some

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structure around kind of thinking well it is still not a transaction but there's something

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that they have paid for you know so you wouldn't kill yourself going after it but when it's for

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your own business like we can almost do that to ourselves and make it so difficult.

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Right because there's no end goal there's no yeah no I see what you're saying it's like when you're

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working on a project for someone there's an end date there's a submission process where you might

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submit it not feeling like it's perfect and expecting them to come back with a list of things to

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correct about it but actually they don't they really like what you did and they're super happy

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and then you're like oh wow like if that was my business I would have kept working on that and

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doing more and do it like making more changes and tweaking it further and yeah that's a really

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I hadn't thought of it like that but that's a really interesting um well I suppose it's helpful

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isn't it like it's it prevents you from spiraling into that yeah I think so I think um yeah I think

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if you are a business owner and you do feel like you're getting caught up on projects because you're

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just trying to make them perfect I do think there is a stage where you probably have to question

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are you really is it really that you're trying to get it perfect or is there something else going

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on there like is it almost fear or fail yeah I can help there and that's really what's holding you back

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yeah no I think I think that that is a really big some people have paralysis around it they like

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they are completely paralyzed by um not not being perv actually that's a reading a book at

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moment "Create Tricks" by Lucy H. Pierce and she was saying how many people and like right at the end

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of it it's one of those ones I've dipped in and out of but she was saying how so many creative people

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just never live their truest creative lives because of this fear of how will their work being

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be received and therefore not sharing it until it's perfect and the way she said it is share it

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and tell people this is work in progress and allow it to go out and spread and fly away so that

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again expansion contraction you're emptying your space and energy in containers to be able to

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create the next thing that chooses to come through you and I love that way of thinking about it like

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it's okay to share things with people and explain that this is not a finished work but

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what I was called to express was this and this is how far I've got it yeah and I feel like you almost

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can't get to that next level of like reflecting on it and getting better without doing it you know

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I mean like get caught up in your own head if before you've shared it with people and like well is it

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quite right or whatever but I feel like as soon as it's out there it almost like takes I don't know

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like a mask off or something where you can actually see it for what it really is yeah totally totally

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and I think there's two interesting things to say about that one is that um it's okay like a lot of

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people that we speak to are 10 or 20 years into their business and they might say like I'm a different

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person now and I don't know like if I'm still the same person setting out to achieve the same thing

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and what I would say is when that happens and your work doesn't feel the same as it used to and

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part of that is the fear right of like yeah am I going to upset people by sharing this because my

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audience are not used to me sharing this type of work then what I would say is David Bowie prints

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like so many other creatives rebranded themselves so many times and yeah I'm sure they lost followers

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like people that like the first three albums and then lost interest because it wasn't their cup

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of tea anymore but more people came in and actually like I find that an incredibly awe inspiring

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thing to do to say this isn't who I am anymore and that's that's true of all of us whether we're creatives

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or in the limelight or public figures or whatever like we are different people throughout our lives

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and before us are all the previous versions behind us sorry are all the previous versions of

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of ourselves and so to acknowledge that and say well that's not who I am anymore and you can't do

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that until you let that work go until you if you're putting on to that work you can't become the next

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version of yourself yeah yeah yeah so I feel like we always have that conversation it's like would

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you rather be like I don't know just like blissfully unaware that you could do any better or that you

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could have in your life and just be happy with what you have or whatever but you can't change that

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about yourself if you're the kind person is always like growing I don't want to say wanting more

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because it's not really about wanting more is that it is I think it's about consciously and like

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always just reviewing and even if that's making the decision to carry on doing it the way you've always

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done it that's valid yeah that's okay but it is just about being conscious in the way that you're doing

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things and you know thinking about well the next question is how does the fear of failure hinder you

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fear or failure hinder you and stop you from enjoying the process and you just mentioned like

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fear of failure is one of the reasons that people are keep working at something and then end up

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never sharing it but there were so many like for example like the light bulb how many

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light bulbs or failed light bulbs prototypes were there before the final light bulb was created

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like I think it's something ridiculous but Thomas Edison absolutely refused to

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see any of the previous ones as failures he saw them all as just a step to getting to the light bulb

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and that's the way we see things that's the way we need to see our previous endovers and efforts

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and businesses and ideas and everything up to this point is that they were all necessary

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to get us to where we are at right now and they were not things we failed at or things that wrong

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decisions we made or you know things that weren't perfect I mean many of the things that are in my

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behind you know it passed were not perfect but without them without all those things we wouldn't be

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doing this the way we're doing it yeah I love that I think it's a really nice way to think of

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something when you're like oh do I really want to share this work with the world or whatever to think

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well this isn't my final best yeah work that I've been working like it's it's just a step closer to

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what I want to create yeah yeah it me that I feel like something that I want to bring up now and it

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might be a good point because we're talking about the next question is then how to embrace imperfection

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be kind to yourself use your passion and failures to learn improve and inspire you and I

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really really think that of absolute utmost importance in that is to have a community around you that

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have your back you know I was thinking the same thing I thought it's it's actually a lot easier

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to kind of go ahead and do something I think when you've got someone else

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like alongside you or yeah because I was I feel like you can almost get in your own head of that

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off created this thing but nobody knows about it and if I didn't share it nobody would still know about

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it right it's like easy to just hide yeah yeah and I think it's too old you can share it as a work in

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progress and people will and you feel safe enough to share it when it doesn't feel perfect if you

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have an aligned tribe around you but exactly and there's no fear of judgment or you know we all know

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people or have known people in our lives that may have been friends but actually we didn't feel

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safe to be our authentic selves with and now I think the realization of the power of surrounding

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yourself with those people that you feel absolutely safe with and you can share some work that you

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hate perhaps and share it saying you hate it and you are not having this work and then them coming back

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to you and knowing that any comment they give is there's no judgment there's no criticism it's just

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conversation and discussion from someone who has your back and I feel like there's so much power

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in that but then also not only do you feel safe to share it you feel safe to listen to the feedback

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and sometimes that feedback is get out of your own head that's amazing like that one is really good

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and you've totally overthought it you don't need to you you you are doing what you're meant to be doing

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and I see you and I see the work and I see like all the like everything you were meant to achieve with

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it and it's there and it's great and so are you kind of thing you know and I just think if we all

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had that around us think how much better everything would be there's so much there's so many lonely

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people out there so many hurt people so many people out of alignment and if everybody just had

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that tribe of people and support around them I mean we could it would be a game changer

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yeah I think the funny thing about it is I was going to say to you how do you like if someone's

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listening to this like and they don't have that that minute how do they find it but actually the

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funny thing is to find it you kind of have to put yourself out there yeah get your work

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to and do it from a place of being authentic and all of that so that you can

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that tribe or that when you go and find those people that they can see that you're a line or

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whatever you know so it's almost like I completely agree I think it makes it so much easier but I

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feel like you almost have to start yeah somewhere yeah yeah and a lot of people feel uncomfortable with

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it because it's not familiar but actually that's all it is it's you know and I remember when my

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granddad first date a curry he could not get his head around it at all because it was unfamiliar

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flavors he had never tasted before and you know he was a well-traveled man but he was of his

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generation where spices like that weren't in common every day use in England and actually he loved

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curry like 20 years later he was requesting we order a curry and that's all it is it's when something

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is unfamiliar all you have to do is just start making it familiar do it more and then more and then

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a bit more and eventually it's no longer unfamiliar and feeling scary but what I would say is

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like social media takes a lot of the leg workout of it for us but it's not about the vanity metrics

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that's where a lot of people get caught up it's not about growing your following having huge numbers

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have it like having a huge reach it's actually about aligning with your exact tribe so the more

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authentic you are and actually probably the more opinionated you are you will draw then the people

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with you that align with that when you're this kind of wishy was she trying to please everyone

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person no one's interested in you you have to be you know firm in your authentic communication

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and I think that there are so many resources out there now like women circles or creative support

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groups or apps where like people have set up a membership of some sort like there's so much out

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there that it's it's easier now than ever to find the right thing but what I would also say is

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don't be afraid to reach out to people like I get messages of people saying like oh I'm so sorry

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to bother you but you know you did this and I'm thinking of doing something similar I wondered if

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you and I love getting messages like that because I would send messages like that before

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and be so nervous about sending them and appreciate it so much when that person replied and was

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actually supportive and encouraging and I just feel like if we all as we progress through our

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learnings of life can remember them and remember what it feels like to be in that place and to want

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to give back generously to that version of previous you that someone else is now in you know

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and then I feel like that can be a community building because that person feels like oh there is

00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:58,560
someone out there who gets what I'm doing and appreciates it and you know it takes such courage

00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:04,320
for someone to send that type of message to say it so yeah to get it so yeah definitely

00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,120
definitely

00:24:07,120 --> 00:24:10,000
making noise

00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:14,480
so how do you think

00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:23,440
we can like yeah be kinder to ourselves I suppose in that and use our passion

00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:35,920
I'm just thinking like yeah what are they actual steps that we can take or I think it probably

00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:43,440
there's an element of coming back to you know we said like finding that half an hour a day to rest

00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:47,120
or to do something that you're passionate about and it's definitely that yeah

00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:55,760
being kind to yourself like that and yeah I definitely think there's that

00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,680
something beautiful in this idea of embracing imperfection isn't there like

00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:08,000
if it feels kind of wild and free and yeah right think of it like like your best friend right or like

00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:17,120
someone you're really close to say like you and I in Rebrandr one of us did something and was

00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:23,280
unsure about it like how would you talk to me would you say to me yeah that freaking sucks that work

00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:29,200
is awful you've not communicated what we set out to communicate, square up and front and the bin

00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:36,080
no one should ever see that or would you talk to me in a what you would right it talked to me in a

00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:43,280
much kind of way but we allow ourselves to talk to ourselves in that really harsh voice and I feel

00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:52,000
like that's the first step and it's a habit some people are nearly 40 50s how I roll you are years into

00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:57,200
talking to ourselves like that so it's not something that's going to change overnight but just

00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:03,840
try to recognize it when you do it like don't call yourself names don't like swear at yourself

00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,920
the way don't speak to yourself the way you would not speak to someone you loved

00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:13,200
talk try and talk to yourself in a way that's encouraging and loving and supportive and kind

00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:22,480
because actually I for all the reasons we've already mentioned there is beauty and imperfection

00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:31,280
and we can be our own worst critics and I think the only way to break that cycle and to actually

00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:39,920
encourage ourselves to grow in confidence is to have our own backs be our own cheerleaders

00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:47,360
and we start by doing the way we talk to ourselves yeah and you're definitely not going to enjoy

00:26:47,360 --> 00:26:54,000
what you do if that's the way that you're yeah you're beating yourself up around right everything

00:26:54,000 --> 00:27:00,640
that you do yeah so it's also yeah there's a lot of like trying to find joy in in all of it in all the

00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:09,840
messy work and all the trials and errors and everything that goes along the way like I think trying to

00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:19,040
enjoy that whole process really really important yeah I think it's really important and I think you know

00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:27,440
like sometimes what I find really helpful is to literally imitate or replicate what someone else has

00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:35,840
done like for example the light bulb like look back on all my inverted commas like light bulbs and like

00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:41,440
compare them like for like okay I thought that was a failure I thought that was something I messed up

00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:48,720
or something I did wrong but actually is that just one of my failed light bulbs that now I'm on the

00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:57,040
path to my successful light bulb and there are so many people out there who failed big time like

00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:02,880
Simon Cowell declared bankruptcy before he then went on to start the record label that he's now famous

00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:12,640
for and Britain's got talent you know all of those so many stories like that and what choice do

00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:18,640
we have really but to pick ourselves up and dust ourselves up onto ourselves and try again

00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:28,320
and I think actually if you do do spend that time and reflect on kind of past versions of yourself

00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:34,480
for your work or whatever you might all of a sudden go actually this is really good like

00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:39,920
if you do go back and think what would I have thought of this piece of work or yeah

00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:45,600
the position that I'm in now or whatever it is that I'm creating what would I have thought of that

00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:52,560
five years ago like and knowing all I know now and all that I've created I think all of a sudden you

00:28:52,560 --> 00:29:01,200
might actually feel really proud of what you've achieved yeah in the mind you just yeah yeah no I agree

00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:12,000
totally and I and I feel like there's we're never at the end of the journey are we like I really

00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:18,560
thought that when you got to being an adult you kind of had it figured out but you don't like it's

00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:28,240
always just evolving and changing and shifting and if we can find a way to embrace that in its imperfections

00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:33,360
and I'm talking about life not just business and not just the work you're delivering but if we can

00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:42,640
find a way to recognize that right now in this moment in this literally 10 second window what

00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:49,920
what is going wrong nothing like I'm sat in a warm house talking to you I have a drink in my hand

00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:55,920
I food in the fridge I know my kids are taking care of I'm enjoying doing this there is nothing

00:29:55,920 --> 00:30:00,640
wrong in this 10 second window but we get in our heads and we think about all the what ifs and all

00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:06,720
the things that could go wrong and we stress ourselves out about them but actually if we could just

00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:12,080
believe in the power of now yeah and I feel like that takes the pressure off

00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:20,640
yeah totally and it's also bringing it back to like what we spoke about in the first part of like

00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:27,520
not thinking about what you're doing but why you're doing it like why am I doing this in the first

00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:35,520
place like like you might be designing a product and you're not happy with it's not perfect or you

00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:42,320
might be writing an email campaign to send out or like that's the what you're doing but actually

00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:47,280
getting back to think yeah but why like why am I doing this oh it's because I'm really passionate about

00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:52,640
whatever is that you're really passionate about and that and this is this is the way in that I'm

00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:59,040
going to spread that message you can get it out there and I love that yeah I think it's really when

00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:04,240
you think of it like that it doesn't become about the end result does it it becomes about the process

00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:13,280
and therefore right therefore does this work or this thing that I'm doing or whatever does it

00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:19,840
express that does it express whatever I'm passionate about did it have that

00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:24,080
underpinning every element of it if the answer is yes then it doesn't matter whether you think it's

00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:30,400
perfect or not because actually we were we to decide what's perfect you know yeah but if it

00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:37,600
impact in a positive way that you set out to impact then that's it that's what you set out to achieve

00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:42,080
and I think it's an important question as well because maybe you actually go no

00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:50,800
it doesn't it doesn't match up with why I started all of this and I'm what I'm passionate about and

00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:56,160
you might all of a sudden have a bit of a realization that you've got down this path of doing

00:31:56,160 --> 00:32:02,480
things for the sake of doing it like all I better dissolve or product or I better send an other

00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:07,920
email campaign or whatever but it's not for the reasons that you felt really passionate about in

00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:13,120
the first place and then perhaps that's something that's draining your energy and you can say

00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:18,640
I'm not going to do that anymore I'm going to focus on all of the things that get me closer to

00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:26,720
yeah feeling I want to feel and sharing the message that I want to share that I'm passionate about

00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:33,920
yeah yeah yeah it's it's beautiful when you see it like that it's hard to stick to it isn't it when

00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:41,120
you're in your day to day and but um that's the other thing is you know we have each other but some

00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:48,880
people are solo-proners and yeah find it harder to talk they I mean well easier I suppose to talk

00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:56,240
themselves into a funk and actually I think if if that's you and if you need holding

00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:06,800
search and seek out that tribe like as a priority because they're the people you can share with

00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:15,120
them, bounce ideas off with them be held and supported by and there is you know I even I mean we run

00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:23,600
the um small business circle but I still feel like I look forward to it every week it holds me

00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:29,200
you know it's not just about us running it it's about what we get from it too and it's the most

00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:33,840
incredible community of people and there are so many people doing things like that whether you need

00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,840
something physical in person or something or a remote or something centered around women or

00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:44,800
centered around men or like whatever there are so many things like that now that I would encourage

00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:54,240
you to look out for yeah I think it really does it gives you space like we always say that people

00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:59,360
go oh I don't have an extra I don't have an hour for this or whatever when you commit to something

00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:06,400
like that you all of a sudden do have that hour and then people like I always wave away from

00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:15,200
our like circle feeling so I don't know like so like I'm full of ideas and energy like energise I

00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:21,200
suppose again for after it and even if you go in before like I've got too much stuff on to do this

00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:26,560
you never come away feeling like you notice like people say you never walk away from a gym session

00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:33,680
regretting it like it's the same thing yeah and I definitely think if you are a person

00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:39,600
running a business on your own it's really important to have something like that because yeah it's

00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:46,080
easier like when there's the two of us to say okay let's have a weekly meeting and check in on where

00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:52,480
we're out of stuff and you do have a bit more like kind of back and forth and time to reflect on stuff

00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:57,920
yeah whereas I think when you are on your own you just keep going and going without really

00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:04,160
stopping and thinking hang on a minute how have we actually like ended up doing something

00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:11,840
completely just what we set out to do here yeah and yeah I completely agree I think if you are

00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:19,520
a small business owner then and you're on your own I definitely would encourage like

00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:27,760
getting a business coach or joining a club or a group or something where you can have that space to

00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:33,120
talk and connect and actually reflect all the things that you're doing in your business and make

00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:40,320
sure yeah that you're staying on the path of what you set out to do in the first place well I mean

00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:48,000
we've spoken about it so often haven't we how it used to be a taboo in the UK to have a therapist but

00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:53,760
yet in America people have been doing it for so long yeah and now it's kind of the same with having

00:35:53,760 --> 00:36:00,880
a business mentor or coach in the US it's like normal and here people still I don't know I just

00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:08,560
not doing it but I think maybe it's one of those things like when you do have a therapist like

00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:13,360
the cost is not an issue like you find a way to pay for that because of what it gives you like the

00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:23,600
return on investment is yeah undeniable and but I feel like this is this is the kind of stuff we've got

00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:30,640
another episode um work life balance um and we'll be talking about you going off on maternity and how

00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:40,080
we're facilitating that um as you transition from maiden to mother um and I feel like that leads

00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:46,960
on quite nicely to that so perhaps we leave the conversation there for now and then pick it up again

00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:53,360
yeah I think um it will be an interesting conversation because we're both kind of coming at it from

00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:58,160
definitely different very different perspectives of me not having any kids and you

00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:06,000
having three already and had you've had different job situations

00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:13,680
I mean yeah right obviously like I know what you kind of have done and stuff but um yeah I think

00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:19,360
it will be a really interesting conversation or an even it will be interesting for me to listen

00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:26,320
back to it I think after yes I think it will be how different my opinion actually is later on

00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:32,000
because I have an idea you know how things are going to go and how to get that work life balance

00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:39,840
but I know that it won't actually turn out like that hopefully yeah totally yeah I think I'm

00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:46,400
looking forward to that chat and actually it'll be a good one yeah oh it will so we leave it

00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:53,440
there for now and um we'll be speaking again soon this podcast is paid for by our own business

00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:59,920
Rebrandr a digital brand marketing and creative studio we specialize in supporting conscious

00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:05,600
businesses with a range of services from branding social media management website design

00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:11,840
and photo shoots to ongoing business coaching and more you can learn more about our services

00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:22,560
at www.rebrandr.co.uk or please send us a DM we'd love to hear from you.